Joly on Trump, Tariffs, Ukraine and a More Dangerous World

As Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly sat down for a Q&A with the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade on Friday, the world was watching an extraordinarily tense meeting between Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Donald Trump.

The encounter, in which Trump and Vice-President JD Vance berated and attempted to humiliate Zelenskyy, is just one more example of how the U.S. has turned the world upside down, criticizing longtime allies and cozying up to former adversaries like Russia.

Joly said the rapid disruptions are high risk.

"The geopolitical tectonic waves are moving so fast," said Joly, who has been foreign affairs minister since 2021.

"There's a fear that the changes are creating a vacuum which could lead to us to be in a very dangerous world. And we are indeed living in a much more dangerous world than four years ago."

Canada, normally a middle power that plays a supporting role, is right in the centre of the shake-up. Trump has threatened to impose punishing tariffs on Canadian goods starting Tuesday, called for Canada to become the 51st state. He has mused about kicking Canada out of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance and even redrawing the border between the U.S. and Canada.

Joly said she's been travelling extensively to the U.S. and Europe to meet with leaders on tariffs and the new reality of the United States' relationship with traditional allies.

"When I was talking… with the foreign ministers of France, of Germany, of the EU and also of the U.K., [telling them] what we were going through, I was saying, 'Hey, we're the canary in the coal mine. Guys, this is coming to you — you're next,'" Joly said.

Here's a closer look at some of the topics Joly is handling during this intense period of Canada-U.S. relations.

Who are Canada's allies?

When U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer met with Trump recently, he told reporters the topic of Canada had not come up. Reporters were "trying to find a divide" between the U.K. and the U.S. "that does not exist."

Considering that Canada's sovereignty is being threatened by Trump, some critics have said that Starmer should have offered a stronger defence of Canada, a Commonwealth country whose head of state is King Charles III.

Joly said the ties between Canada and the U.K. are still strong and she recently met with Jonathan Powell, the National Security Advisor for the U.K. and Foreign Secretary David Lammy.

"I think that countries are figuring out what does that mean, the change of leadership from the U.S.?" Joly said. "I think all countries are looking at ourselves and we're anxious."

Joly said Canada needs to develop stronger relationships with Japan and South Korea as well as with with European countries, especially those that border the arctic with Canada: Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Finland and Sweden. Left off that list is Russia, a country Canada has an adversarial relationship with because of Canada's strong support of Ukraine.

On the weekend, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau met with European leaders in a London summit aimed at finding a path to peace in Ukraine and countering Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Getting 'organized' for tariffs, and connecting trade to defence

Joly said she's travelled to the U.S. five times since the tariff threat began and she talks or texts with Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham "nearly every day" about tariffs and other topics.

"He's a Trump whisperer, as we call it," Joly said.

As "Team Canada", Canadian provincial leaders, Joly and Dominic LeBlanc, minister of intergovernmental affairs, have been working together on the tariff issue. Diversifying markets away from the U.S. has been a key strategy, Joly said, and she's been pressing European leaders to think about Canada rather than other countries for commodities like uranium and potash.

Joly said Canada needs to develop both strong defence and trade relationships with Japan, South Korea and European countries. She said she recently pitched France on getting uranium from Canada instead of Kazakhstan, and potash fertilizers from Canada instead of Belarus and Russia.

"We're having conversations with countries that we weren't that close to, but now we're saying, 'OK, we need to share intelligence,'" Joly said. "We need to do more defence cooperation. We need more of your trade and we need also more of your knowledge."

Canada also needs to spend more on our military and work to fulfill NATO's requirement that two per cent of government spending to go towards defence, Joly said. Canada currently doesn’t meet the requirement, and while there is a plan to meet the target by 2032, Joly called for that to be sped up. Joly noted that the U.K. has just announced a target of 2.5 per cent of government spending to go to defence.

She added that Canadian businesses should see this as an opportunity, because Canada needs to end its reliance on the U.S. for military equipment.

"All of these business community members should think, 'How can I be part of that supply chain? How can I be part of the investment the government will be making?'" Joly said.

Emboldening Putin and a new era of confrontation

After three years of war between Russia and Ukraine, the U.S. is trying to get Ukraine to sign a peace deal that includes a requirement that Ukraine give the U.S. access to its mineral resources as reparations for American support during the war, which was started by Russia.

Joly said it's vital that any eventual peace deal needs to "make sure that President Putin doesn't leave, rearm and re-attack."

"Ukrainians have a right to be part of Europe, they have a right as well for their own destiny, and if we don't do that, it means that the borders of every single country on the planet can be redrawn through force," she said. "We believe in these international norms and rules that have kept us safe, that are at the core of the United Nations, that are at that core of the idea of peace that our grandparents had in mind after the Second World War, and so we need to defend them."

She warned that if Trump imposes a "bad deal" on Ukraine, China could be emboldened to take action on Taiwan.

"We know that President Putin has no red lines, and if he has no red lines, it means that then NATO territory is at threat, and if NATO territory is at threat, we are at threat," Joly said.

"So that's why, when you try to connect, why is Ukraine important and why we need to make sure to support Ukrainians and European security — it is because… when we defend Europe, we also defend our own space, our own sovereignty, because we know that solidarity goes both ways."